Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Welcome to the Game Changer Unlocked where we explore the people innovations transforming the world of sports performance and recovery. I'm your host, Bryan Fetzer. Whether you're an elite athlete or a weekend warrior, or someone that just wants to feel better and move better, we're here to bring you the cutting edge insights to help you reach your peak. Today's guest is someone whose work is truly changing the game in sports medicine. Dr. Larry Balle is a double board certified physician in both primary care sports medicine and family medicine. He specializes in non surgical orthopedics and regenerative medicine. Helping athletes and active individuals heal using the power of the body itself.
From working with NFL stars to Olympians to NBA players and caring for a wide gamut of individuals, Dr. Baye brings world class expertise to every single patient.
He's here to help us understand ortho biologics. We're going to talk about that a lot like PRP therapy, giving people a second chance to perform without surgery or downtime.
Dr. Balle, welcome to the Game Changer Unlocked. Yeah, so you know, let's get started with the basics. PRP therapy, kind of explain that a little bit.
[00:01:30] Speaker B: Sure. So PRP therapy, the acronym stands for platelet rich plasma. It's a blood product that is derived from Bloodrol. So the idea behind it is you take everything from the individual's own blood circulatory system, concentrate it down and put it back towards an injury or, or an area where there's an inflammatory process creating pain.
The thought process behind that versus a medication is I'm using what's called an autograft, not necessarily steroid or Toradol or some other kind of medication.
You can take that and apply it to acute injuries or chronic injuries. So soft tissue versus joint and I'm augmenting the healing process. So by doing that you can return people back to where whatever sport or activity that they're trying to get back to.
[00:02:19] Speaker A: You know, when people hear regenerative medicine, they assume it's something futuristic. Can you explain kind of how orthobiotics like PRP actually work to help repair, you know, injuries naturally? Using the body kind of as his own tool?
[00:02:35] Speaker B: Sure. So there are several things within the body's plasma that we're isolating and concentrating down. Platelets are a big part of that. There's also different white blood cells, including monocytes that do that. There's proteins called cytokines and there's different growth factors. By isolating some of those and concentrating them and putting them back down into an area where there's an injury. Specifically with an ultrasound, you could directly target an area you're stimulating the body's own healthy response and own immune response to reproduce and help heal and recover. You don't necessarily regenerate cells, so if someone has bone on bone arthritis, you know, you're not going to put that into a joint like their knee and then you're going to regrow cartilage, but you will stabilize and help the cartilage that you have left. As far as the regenerative process, you're more regenerating that healing response that once you get to a chronic stage may not be the best that it's able to be. And so by stimulating your body's signals to attract more cells and more of that healing process, that's where that name regenerative process or regenerative medicine comes from.
[00:03:37] Speaker A: So who's a good candidate for PRP therapy? Is it just elite athletes? Is it weekend warriors or who really can benefit from PRP therapy?
[00:03:48] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a good question. I see a handful of consults every day from the 90 year old person with end stage knee arthritis. A patient who's a transplant patient who has been told they can't have certain kinds of medications like additional steroids or NSAIDs, diabetic patients who also can't have some of those medications.
So really it's anybody that has any kind of injury can potentially benefit from some of these. And that doesn't mean that you have to be, you know, a star professional football player, you know, a high school, you know, basketball player. I see marathon runners. I see, you know, the dad that goes out and jogs with this kid, you know, behind the stroller kind of thing.
And anybody who has any kind of musculoskeletal, as far as, you know, my world goes, I'll have a conversation with them and we can talk about which type of blood product or plasma product or regenerative medicine category might be beneficial for them and might be beneficial for their specific ailment or injury.
[00:04:45] Speaker A: So what types of injuries or conditions have you had the most success treating with PRP therapy? Is it tendons, joints, post surgery? What might be specific with that?
[00:04:58] Speaker B: So I've treated all of those conditions and probably one of the more common ones I see is mild to moderate arthritis.
Knee is one of the more common as well as hip and then glenohumeral shoulder.
Now, I'm not talking end stage arthritis, like I mentioned a second ago, more of that. If you grade Arthritis 2 or 3 and obviously the Lesser stage of the arthritis, the better outcome you'll have.
Now if you have an unstable knee with an ACL tear, that's not something that would necessarily benefit from an orthobiologic product. Or if you have an unstable shoulder so your shoulder keeps dislocating, that's not something where you'd benefit from. But if you have a cartilage injury in your shoulder, you have a ligament injury around the shoulder, around the knee, outside of the knee, or you have like patellar tendonitis. You know, I saw someone today with patellar tendonitis and we talked about how an orthobiologic product might be beneficial in their treatment. Regimental.
So anything musculoskeletal may help augment care and it can be chronic or acute. Most of the patients that I see, I'm in the Texas Medical center, so largest medical center in the world. I'm usually at least the third, if not sometimes fifth or sixth person they've seen and they've been told there's no additional options for them and there's nothing that they can do. And so they come see me as another person for another opinion.
[00:06:14] Speaker A: So when you start thinking about the regenerative process and how things work, is there anything that someone can take, whether it's a supplement food or specific medicine, before or after the PRP injection to kind of help reduce inflammation and kind of start that healing process, or is there anything that they can't do? Yeah, because I think that's important.
[00:06:35] Speaker B: It's a great question. And I get asked this question, you know, every day I have this whole profile that we send out to patients pre procedure a week before to make sure that everything is kind of teed up. I actually have a paper sitting on my desk right now that's evidence based that shows some of these things. In reality, a lot of what you would take supplement wise or diet wise will unlikely make that big of a difference in your, in your plasma product or your blood product. However, avoiding anything that's anti inflammatory. So that's like a non steroidal anti inflammatory drug. Ibuprofen, aleve, steroid, steroid injections, methylprednisolone, that includes cortisone that you'll hear people talk about some of the more natural anti inflammatories like turmeric, bromelain, those kinds of things can actually post procedure help and stimulate some of the body's response. But pre procedure we usually tell patients to stop them for a number of days. Platelets live for 10 days.
So some of the studies show at least five days pre procedure stopping those medications. I tell patients if you're paying for this procedure, it's cash based procedure, you wanna get the most out of it. So I would stick as close to 10 day as you can. And then the other thing in that paper that I was mentioning talks about diet. So I'll have some hardcore patients that come in, I'll have Olympians come see me and they'll ask me and they'll do the whole 30 diet before they come in and they want it to be as clean as possible. So that's where you're not eating any processed food, not eating any sugar, trying to stick to lean meats that are not processed in antibiotics or anything like that.
That's kind of extreme. Do I think that probably helps? Sure. For the, you know, normal person, everyday person, I don't know that it makes that big of a difference. But again, I tell people if you're paying for it and you want to get the most out of it, then these are some of the things that might give you some benefit.
[00:08:21] Speaker A: And that makes total sense.
There's talk about avoiding surgery with PRP therapy. Can you share an example of a patient that was maybe able to skip a major operation thanks to the kind of the regenerative therapy?
[00:08:36] Speaker B: Sure.
You know, I see a number of them and often a lot of the patients that I see, they're not wanting surgery. And so I'm a non operative sports medicine physician so they specifically seek me out for that kind of opinion. And you know, if you have an unstable joint, if you have an end stage arthritis type picture, I'm not necessarily going to fix that by using an orthobiologic or generative medicine type product, but I may help manage some of your pain. These aren't an end all be all. You know, I'm going to do this and it's a miracle type procedure. It's more of managing the inflammatory process that's going on within that structure or in a soft tissue, help remodeling that structure and prevent some of the scarring that's going on. So in that respect, you know, as far as, you know, arthritis and you know, tendon injuries, we're using them as an augmentation or another tool in the toolbox instead of just jabbing someone with a medication.
[00:09:30] Speaker A: This next question we might have to spill into another segment, but orthobiologics, definitely it's one of those words that isn't super common, but you know, it includes way more than just PRP therapy, things like stem cells and so forth. What are some of the most exciting developments that you've seen in that space kind of quickly that maybe people should know about?
[00:09:53] Speaker B: Yeah, of course.
So there's lipoaspirate, which there's more mesenchymal progenitor cells or what people call mesenchymal stem cells and people's fat. You take a little bit of that, you wash it and clean it. Use that. And then we're now starting to identify some different proteins within your plasma that you can use as well. So not the platelet rich part, but the platelet pore part that you can use. I think that's going to be the next step in orthobiologics.
[00:10:16] Speaker A: That's really interesting. What can be used inside your own body to help heal your body.
It sounds almost too good to be true, to be honest.
[00:10:26] Speaker B: It's your own stuff, right?
[00:10:27] Speaker A: Right. You'd think that's how God created you, kind of heal yourself, right?
[00:10:30] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely.
[00:10:31] Speaker A: And not enough people, I think, really kind of get to know or understand because it seems like a lot of people think that when you say PRP therapy, it's just for elite athletes because that's who primarily has been using it for, you know, the last decade or two.
[00:10:48] Speaker B: Right, right. And cost is probably a part of that too, right?
[00:10:51] Speaker A: I would say cost is probably a huge part of it.
[00:10:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:53] Speaker A: How much does something like that cost?
[00:10:57] Speaker B: So that goes into another topic too. As well as concentration. The concentration, if you're using platelet rich plasma makes a really big deal. So a lower concentration with a lot of systems is going to put you about two to three times the concentration of your platelets within your plasma. So your normal plasma and then concentrate down PRP, where a high concentration closer to 8 to 10 times is going to be better for most injuries and most arthritis. A lot of people will pay less for the lesser concentration and will have less of an effect. The higher concentration tries to make it, you know, you try to make it more reasonable and less expensive. Where I am, we charge $500. I tried to make it the least expensive because that's how much the kit costs and the time for the visit other places in town. Charging, you know, there's a guy down the street that's charging $3,500 for the same thing that I'm doing and using the same system that I'm doing. So that's where the, you know, the difference comes into play with cost. And you know, some of the other systems use the Lesser concentration and they'll charge a little bit less. And so patients will come back and they'll tell me, oh, well, I can go there and get it for less expensive. But it's because it's the least or inferior product.
[00:12:02] Speaker A: And that makes total sense. Dr. Baye, this has been an amazing breakdown of regenerative healing. For anyone who's watching and wants to learn more or connect with you, you know, where can they find you? Online, website or LinkedIn or social media?
[00:12:16] Speaker B: Sure, if you Google my name, I'll pop up on my office number. And you can always get a hold me that way. My LinkedIn is a good way to get a hold of me. I field messages from there all the time. And professionals reach out. Sometimes I'll get some patients that'll reach out. And then also my Instagram, I actually have patients and, you know, I have med students that reach out to me too, and residents to talk about different things and some other sports medicine doctors occasionally that we have, you know, stimulating conversation from it.
[00:13:08] Speaker A: If you're just tuning in, we're joined by Dr. Larry Baye, a renowned sports medicine expert and regenerative therapy pioneer, really. He's helped Olympians, professional athletes and active adults heal without surgery and, and some cutting edge treatments. And we're gonna dive into some little different questions right now without giving away any private details. Cause I know you can't really say names. Can you tell us about one of the Olympic medalists from Paris that you worked with and kind of how that role with PRP therapy helped?
[00:13:43] Speaker B: Sure. So I had a little over 20 Olympians in Paris, a few different sports that were competing.
One that comes to mind was having a nerve issue. And we discussed options. Again, like I mentioned previously, I was that, you know, second third opinion that that patient had had. And we talked about some options. And you know, that patient was told, or the athlete was told, you likely need surgery, but you can't really have surgery right before you go to the Olympics, obviously. Right. And you're going to be out. So we talked about a couple different options and we talked about a couple diagnostic options to then confirm that doing something in the orthobiologic realm was actually worth pursuing or worth spending that cash price option that we were talking about.
And I did what's called a perineural ultrasound guided injection with a diagnostic the athlete had benefit from that.
And so we knew from there that was a subjective example of how they would likely benefit, therefore, from an orthobiologic product. And I used to platelet poor plasma around that nerve that was irritated. And it ended up being a couple nerves at the end of the day. One got better and there was one that was still kind of lingering. So we ended up going after a couple nerves and that Olympian ended up meddling at the, at the Olympics. So they did great. They did well. And then post season they were actually able to rest. Still haven't had surgery, but that was an example of a patient who was told that that was their only option, you know, and, or not compete. And we changed it.
[00:15:09] Speaker A: And as I started thinking the difference between an Olympic athlete or a very high elite athlete and your weekend warrior or just your mom or dad that are trying to work out, is the process any different between the two?
[00:15:26] Speaker B: No, not at all. I mean, really, it's just the field that they step on or the activity realm that they're in, but same mindset, same level of wanting to get back to doing whatever they're doing. And you know, literally the same injury. I've done that procedure that I just mentioned on, you know, a high school level athlete. I've done that procedure on the dad who, you know, is an attorney and is sitting at a computer and having the same kind of, you know, nerve issues. So.
[00:15:52] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I mean, I mean, I remember, I can think of back to my coaching days. We had an athlete when I was at Mississippi State that got PRP therapy. We're talking about shoot back in like 0608 or something like that.
And I was amazed by the results that were accomplished by that.
How long has PRP therapy really been around?
[00:16:15] Speaker B: Yeah, so the early 2000s was about when it started. I was fortunate when I was a medical student to work with one of the first clinics that was doing it. And this is now 10 years later, like early 2010s, but the idea behind it has been around in Europe for much longer and then coming over to the United States, it's really only gained more mainstream popularity in probably the past 10 years or so.
[00:16:38] Speaker A: Is there any extra demands or timelines as you're working with especially a super high level athlete that has a, hey, we're going to compete in Paris at the Olympics.
Are there certain timelines when they're going to be backed up to do the therapy and so forth?
[00:16:58] Speaker B: Good question. And that wouldn't make a difference if you were an Olympian or if you were, you know, I saw somebody the other day who enjoys doing CrossFit. Right. And they want to get back to CrossFit. A lot of the literature shows with PRP whether you use the lower concentration that I mentioned or the higher concentration, your turnaround time for improvement in your discomfort is going to be at about 28 to 30 days. I had a patient tell me that on Monday and told me that she didn't believe me. And then, you know, when she came back for follow up, she said, you were right. And that's not what I'm saying. That's what the literature supports. So backing it up before an event, if we have a competition in two weeks, I'm going to tell you we can try. But realistically, me doing this is not going to make you high 90%, 100%. Prior to your event in two weeks.
[00:17:42] Speaker A: Is there a country that's kind of at the forefront of PRP therapy or regenerative medicine?
[00:17:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I think the United States, as far as PRP does a pretty good job at it. I think realistically you're looking at like Germany and France that are going to have a little bit more. There's a guy in Italy who does a ton of research on it too, and they have a little bit more freedom in what they can do legally with some of these products. So their research is not restricted. And those are because of the European Union. You can have a little bit more leeway with kind of experimenting and testing on.
[00:18:15] Speaker A: Always fascinates me with learning. And the more you learn, where do you get some of your thought process from or where do you. Where do you learn from?
[00:18:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, back, you just mentioned.
[00:18:27] Speaker A: Germany and France and a doctor doing some cutting edge stuff. I know, like when I was coaching, it was always, you know, where are you going to learn? Who's doing something a little bit different that we could add into it to give us that little bit extra edge.
[00:18:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I have.
I appreciate this question. It's hard when, you know, you have a special interest that not a lot of people know about or talk, you know, talk about. I think collaboration is probably my biggest thing with other sports medicine physicians and, you know, bouncing things off of each other and this is cool. And so people like talking about it and then reading, you know, goes back to what your professors told you and what your high school teachers told you. The more you read, the smarter you'll be. Right.
So I think reading research papers and reading some of the conversations that people are having, you know, LinkedIn is a great example of that and talking about problem solving for that.
[00:19:18] Speaker A: It's fascinating. Is there a sport or.
It could be a sport or an activity that leads to more prp. People are more inclined to do PRP therapy.
[00:19:29] Speaker B: I had a feeling you were gonna ask me this. And I think with our background of knowing each other, track is probably one of the biggest ones.
You have so many overuse type injuries and as well as acute injuries, I mean, you'll see some of the same stuff with like basketball and football, but your timeline with track is also a little bit different because you tend to have a little bit more time. So I can play with those plasma products a little bit differently to get us back to a track meet, you know, in a few weeks rather than game on Sunday. Game on Sunday, you know, kind of thing.
[00:20:01] Speaker A: Do you find that athletic trainers or sports medicine doctors are a little apprehensive or a little gun shy to say, hey, you should try this, or are they a little more open minded?
[00:20:15] Speaker B: It's another great question, of course, apprehension, and I welcome the apprehension. I tell patients you should be apprehensive for anything that you're paying cash for.
You know, and I think the younger generation, I consider myself to be part of the younger generation is more open to things like this, where the older generation of professionals is maybe just because they haven't heard about it or they haven't read about it, or they don't, you know, know anybody else that's had it. So I think yes, and you should be, especially if you're paying cash. And so seeking out people who do these procedures, seeking out someone with a little bit more, you know, reputation isn't everything, but a little bit more background behind it I think is important.
[00:20:52] Speaker A: Switching from the sports side to the everyday person side, where did, where did those referrals come from? I mean, because you sit there, think, I mean, I think of, you know, our sports medicine doctors, different universities I worked at, were always trying to find the best method. But when you get outside of sports and you get into mom and dad just doing things, who then finds out and refers them to you?
[00:21:18] Speaker B: Word of mouth is probably the biggest thing. And I came from, I used to be up in northwest Arkansas with University of Arkansas. And you know, I've only been back in Houston for, I think I'll be at 10 months at the end of the month.
So I've done, you know, well over 100 procedures since I've been back. And often what I found is, you know, I'll treat a patient for a physician or a surgeon, and then I'll see two or three more patients from that physician or surgeon within a few weeks or I'll treat somebody and it's somebody who, their friend who they play tennis with or who they run with or who they play bunco with or, you know, their grandson also had this done. And so that word of mouth and that reputation from that really builds that patient profile, especially if they've had benefit. Right. If you didn't have benefit, obviously you wouldn't tell somebody, hey, you should go try that. And I think that would help you.
[00:22:06] Speaker A: Has there been, has there been somebody that's come the farthest that you could think of? What's the farthest distance? Somebody said, hey, I heard about this and I'm gonna fly in for it.
[00:22:16] Speaker B: Yeah. So. Well, so since I, when I was in northwest Arkansas, I had someone fly in from South Florida, which I thought was weird because they passed so many people to get to me.
And since I've been in Houston, you know, I've had a few Olympians flying from all over the country to come see me. And then I had someone fly a couple people flying from Mexico, but probably the furthest is from Colombia. Since I've been back in Houston. That's come in and it's because they looked at my profile online and, you know, read about me and then thought like, okay, I want to go talk to this guy. And so with them, they come in, we talk, and then we do the procedure and, you know, we touch base with them, make sure they're getting better.
[00:22:53] Speaker A: Fascinating. What an incredible segment. We're going to take a commercial break and we'll be right back with doc some fascinating insight on regenerative therapy. So stay tuned and we'll be right back.
We're back with Dr. Larry Bae, who is helping us understand how sports medicine is evolving and how treating Olympic champions to helping everyday people live pain free. He's at the forefront of regenerative care and healing innovation, and he's in Houston, so keep that in mind.
One of the questions coming back is do you see regenerative medicine becoming kind of a standard for injury recovery in the next five, ten years?
[00:23:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think it's already getting there with a lot of people. And in reality, it's something that's better and overall healthier for patients at the end of the day. And so I think as far as management of acute issues, you don't have to use it for everything. But in certain situations, I think we'll start seeing that arrow kind of pointing more towards using orthobiologics and regenerative therapy to get people back in, in less discomfort quicker than we have in the past 10 years or so.
[00:24:18] Speaker A: If you can Kind of give a better definition than probably I could on ortho biologics because, I mean, I'll tell you, right, I was screwing the name up, as I kept saying, it didn't roll off my tongue because it's a very unique.
But what is orthobiologics?
[00:24:34] Speaker B: Sure. So when I talk to patients and I talk about things like osteoarthritis, that comes from several Latin origins, right. So thinking about orthobiologics in the same respect, ortho is bone, bone and joint, musculoskeletal system, bio is life. And logics is like the study of. So the study of these products towards that. So. So regenerative medicine comes into play as another name. Cell therapy is another stem cell therapy. I had a guy, I was literally prping his knee this morning and he said, hey, do you know anything about stem cells? And I kind of chuckled and my mas are behind me laughing. I was like, I know a couple things and I'm thinking, like, what do you think we're about to do to your knee right now? So it has all these different names and it's all just semantics, same thing. But what I specifically specialize in is how to apply these plasma products. So the biologic portion to the orthopedic world. So the orthobiologic portion, you know, for.
[00:25:32] Speaker A: Somebody who's listening or watching, that's struggling with the chronic joint pain or an or old injury, you know, what's kind of the first step in finding out if PRP and orthobiologics could, could help them?
[00:25:45] Speaker B: I mean, that's another great question. And I think a consultation to have an exam and an evaluation of what's going on, as well as a good history, figure out what all has been done, you know, and, and I tell patients a lot of times too that like, we can start with the easy stuff and if you get better, we're going to leave it alone. If we need something else or there's something a little bit more severe, that's when we should maybe approach that orthobiologics, you know. And I have certain patients that come in and they're dead set and they're like, this is what I want to do. And, you know, that's fine as well. But I think having someone put their hands on you that knows what they're doing as far as a physical exam of your musculoskeletal system, taking history and listening, listening to what's going on and what all you've done and what all hasn't worked in the past, and then talking about options going forward. And then if orthobiologics or regenerative medicine falls in that category of a good option for you, that's the next step.
[00:26:33] Speaker A: So, I mean, after they go through the procedure, do you work with the physical therapist or the athletic trainer or whoever it might be to kind of set up the programs to kind of go forward?
[00:26:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Where I was at the University of Arkansas, I was really fortunate to have a group of amazing physical therapists that had specialty training on top of just basic dpt, so physical therapy education, and we developed a lot of protocols. I've brought a lot of those protocols here with me now. And there's several therapists around the city that I have specifically that I work with. Some of them are in different groups. Some of them are within my group. And, you know, we have designed protocols based off of certain things. So whether that's a, you know, a hamstring versus, you know, an Achilles versus a rotator cuff or even a joint. So working with them hand in hand, and that collaboration is super important to me. And I think that's what really gets that patient that much more benefit out of the recovery process.
[00:27:27] Speaker A: You just mentioned Achilles, and I can think of this year in the NBA, the rash of Achilles injuries.
What do you think that's kind of prompted to. Not trying to put you on the spot. But why has there just been a rash of them?
[00:27:43] Speaker B: You know, I have this handout in my office, and I give it to a lot of patients, and shoe wear is a really big deal. And, you know, I had this debate with another ortho guy, and we were talking about it. Basketball shoes tend to have zero arch support. Basketball guys are on their feet constantly, just like track, and their feet tend to. Their arches tend to collapse, and their feet tend to become more flat. When your foot becomes more flat, you end up putting more stress and pressure on the Achilles tendon. So you add that combination, as well as plyometrics with basketball and jumping, and it's a recipe for disaster.
[00:28:21] Speaker A: Wow. You know, to me, as a.
As a coach, that is so remedial in a thought process, but it's. It's something I wouldn't even have thought of when I think about why it's all happening. And you have all these people having their own shoes and different shoe companies and all that kind of stuff, and it's not bashing on a shoe company by any stretch of the imagination. It's making sure you have the right Footwear for your body as opposed to, hey, these shoes look good.
It's what works for you. Would that be good advice for just a person that's out there running or, you know, playing pickleball? Because I've heard a lot of pickleball in her jerseys too. I haven't ever broached pickleball, but I've heard a lot of stories about people getting injured, getting into it and doing it. And footwear might have an issue for that, definitely.
[00:29:10] Speaker B: I mean, not everybody's foot's the same. Our feet are meant to move and our feet are meant to move differently with different activities that we do. And so thinking about that, you're not going to wear the same kind of shoe with basketball as you would with pickleball, but you think about the movement. Just like tennis, right? Tennis and pickleball. You're going to have a different type of mechanics, just like sprinting with track. I met with some shoe engineers of a very well known company that has their logo on several different teams around the world. I'm sure you can imagine. And the coaches at Arkansas wanted me to talk to them and go over it. And their biggest thing was how it looked basically like whose shoe it is not the function in preventing injury.
So that kind of plays into what you just described too, with everybody having their own, you know, individual brand and.
[00:29:55] Speaker A: You know, and athletes, injuries for athletes become, you know, magnified because they're on tv, but the everyday person, people get hurt all the time and they're always needing help or resources.
Are there any resource places that you can think of or can they go to your site to kind of get some documents to say, hey, this might be able to help me out in my physical journey to get in better shape?
[00:30:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
In the age of the Internet and Instagram, there's a lot of misinformation out there. Yes. So, you know, and YouTube is another example too. And I'll use YouTube to explain things to patients sometimes and to give them additional videos to watch. As far as like rehab.
Yes. There's some information on our website and there's some. I would encourage anyone that if you are looking for additional information, ChatGPT is probably not the best option for that.
And there's a reason why my job won't be replaced anytime soon by AI. But looking at a more of an evidence based source, whether that's a physician website or a hospital website or a physical therapist type website, or you can go look at research papers and literature based off of that.
[00:31:10] Speaker A: Okay, you just mentioned, mentioned The Internet and social media. And it seems like more and more people try to get their expertise from that. So I let you give your comment on that about, you know, the cautionary tales of, well, YouTube said this or TikTok said this.
[00:31:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:34] Speaker A: Patients come in and say, hey, well, doc, I saw that they're doing this on TikTok.
[00:31:40] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it could be anything, right? It could be whether it's an exercise or like you mentioned shoes before. Well, I was told I need this. And I'm like, oh, okay, who told you? And they're like, well, I saw this on TikTok. And I'm like, yeah, okay, well, and I'll explain to them, like, what's, you know, why they do not need that. You know, barefoot flat foot weightlifting is a big thing right now. And there's certain things where barefoot flat foot weightlifting helps, but not, not all of those guys on Instagram that are influencers that are talking about lifting understand true foot mechanics or hip mechanics to be able to fully influence you in the right way of what shoes should buy. They're probably getting paid based off of your click on that shoe wear website. So, yeah, have that conversation often.
[00:32:23] Speaker A: I can only imagine the Instagram gurus out there that will give great medical advice and, and they've, you know, they're walking through a grocery store. I see that on a regular basis and I kind of, kind of chuckle a little bit. It's no different than coaching. You see all these people that have these great theories on speed development and strength development, and you're going, I've never heard of you as a coach. Like, I've been in a round a little while, so I can only imagine no difference in the medical side.
[00:32:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you can't get mad, right? And I enjoy a challenge. And so if someone is bringing that to me, you know, I'm more than happy to talk about happens. It's, you know, part of any field. And now that with the education and, you know, misinformation that's out there, it's going to come along.
[00:33:07] Speaker A: What do you see as the next next step in regenerative medicine?
[00:33:15] Speaker B: Yeah, so that one of the proteins in particular that I mentioned from plasma is called alpha 2 macroglobulin. That is one specific protein within your plasma that's a protease inhibitor. So it actually stops the inflammatory process that's going on in joints. It's very good. However, what we're learning is to get that several other things come along with it. So it isolate that out of the Plasma and what we're, you know, theorizing is there, you know, there's other things in your plasma that can be used for, you know, various types of things. Hair loss is a big one, you.
[00:33:44] Speaker A: Know, it's a big one.
[00:33:45] Speaker B: It's coming along where all these proteins are being thought about as well. So it can be applied elsewhere, not just to orthopedics, sports medicine.
[00:33:54] Speaker A: Man, what such an enlightening conversation. This has got me thinking a million miles an hour, which I don't need that because I think a million miles an hour all the time. But again, real quick, where can somebody find out more information about you, about the practice?
How can they do that?
[00:34:11] Speaker B: Yeah, I think the easiest thing is just Google my name and my practice will pop up. You can always make an appointment or a call. You can also get on my Instagram and I get DMs like I mentioned all the time.
LinkedIn is another easy way. It's a professional way to get ahold of me. And a lot of times what I do is I end up just taking that information and sending it to my scheduler and my scheduler reaches out to you and gets you set up with a consultation and that's a great start, is to have a conversation and see what happens from there.
[00:34:40] Speaker A: Dr. Bea, thank you so much for joining us today and shedding light on a powerful game changing tools that are really transforming how we heal and perform. It's incredible to know the future of sports medicine is not just about faster recovery but about smarter, more personalized and less invasive situations. So our viewers who are living with pain or recovering from an injury know that there is hope and heal healing that can be closer than you really think. We hope today's episode empowers you to ask questions, explore new options and take the next step to feeling like yourself again. I'm Bryan Fetzer and you've been watching the Game Changer where performance meets possibility. We'll see you the next time.
You crushed it.
[00:35:32] Speaker B: Thanks.
[00:35:32] Speaker A: You crushed it.
Welcome back to the Game Changer Unlocked. I'm Bryan Fetzer and today we're joined by Andrew Petcash, the founder of Profluent Sports and one of the sharpest voices when it comes to sports and where it's headed. From name, image and likeness to athlete led brands to to AI fan engagement, sports tech, investing. Man, I could go on and on and on and on. Andrew really lives kind of at the intersection of trends and capital and culture. So we're going to dive into the future of sports trends, technology and Transformation. Now, viewers, are you curious about, you know, where sports are heading in the next 10 years plus? Well, most of us really don't know, but face it, faces uncertainty with technologies investments. So I've got Andrew Petcash, who's one of the leading voices to talk about that. And Andrew, thanks for being on the show today.
[00:36:33] Speaker C: Thanks for having me, Bryan. Excited.
[00:36:34] Speaker A: We're, you know, you've kind of been at the intersection of sports and business, you know, tech really, for years. If you had to describe the next decade of sports in three words, what would they be? And maybe why?
[00:36:49] Speaker C: Yeah, that's a first off, it's a great question. And it's, I would say, I don't know if I'm going to limit this to three words, but I would say this is like the premier industry. Maybe, maybe we can cut those at the three. The premier industry to be in over the next decade. Because if you look, and I'll give two quick things, if you look across all the change and transformation that's happening within sports, you know, from college sports fragmenting and nil, and all these emerging sports coming onto the market. And then also, number two, if you go even broader into what's happening in artificial intelligence and just technology as a whole, everything's coming to community and in person and sports is going to be at the center of that. So the three words, the premier industry over the next decade, that is what I believe. And we have a lot in the US World Cup, Olympics 28 in LA, Women's Olympics in 2030 somewhere. So it's, yeah, it's gonna be a fun run.
[00:37:50] Speaker A: Technology is kind of changing how fans consume sports. From streaming to VR, VR to AI driven analytics, betting in your seat. I mean, it's, it's kind of crazy, you know, which innovations you think you know will have the biggest impact on fan experience or which do you think have the biggest impact?
[00:38:08] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a, it's quite funny because I get a lot of people that come to pitch us on the venture side of profluence about their fan engagement tools. And I said, well, the greatest fan engagement tool has already been built and that's called sports betting. It not only generates billions of dollars, it's increased the valuations of teams through the roof, but it also engages fans to a level never before seen from the standpoint of even if you just look at women's sports, and a lot of people don't like to admit this, they want to say, oh, it's driven by a lot of the women athletes or you know, what's taking place there. But if you go actually deeper, it's more about the fact you can bet on their games. Now that's what drives a lot of this.
If there's nothing else on, you know, you know, there's this is. I don't want to say it's why I typically stay a little outside of that space. But you know, there's a lot of people addicted to it and there's a lot of money flowing through and it's super easy to get access to and the dopamine hits and so, you know, nothing else on. But there's women's games.
Let me throw some money on this. And, you know, that's just the state of it these days is that's why it's the greatest fan engagement technology. And so they're putting better barriers and things to help people that go a little far deep into it. But by far the greatest technology sports has ever had, at least on the legal side.
[00:39:29] Speaker A: Do you think that's potentially compromises some of the game? I mean, with. You've seen the scandals in the day, there's the Boston College scandal and it kind of goes on and on. Do you think that that's going to become more of an issue potentially in the future?
[00:39:46] Speaker C: Yeah, I think we could have an hour long segment just about this.
It's something I find fascinating from, you know, ethics and morals and psychology and all. You can look at it from so many different lens. Yes, it will have an impact. I think it's already having an impact. We've seen a ton of athletes just recently get in trouble for things on their own game. I was a college athlete, I can tell you that, you know, I definitely told people some things going on in the locker room before games, you know, to help them make better bets. Like, you know, I can say that now and I know that's still going on. And then if you look at it from a league level or a sponsorship or a brand, I think that's where it gets a little bit scarier of, you know, can they, you know, launder, cook some things behind the books or, you know, push forward something they really want to happen.
But if you look across at least the major leagues, sports is an entertainment product. It's not viewed as like a sport. And so, you know, there can be things that they can manipulate and, and do. And I think that's why emerging sports are going to have their day. And we're seeing this fragmentation and breakup and seeing all these new, you know, different formats of basketball. Or soccer or just completely new sports. But yeah, it's a good, it's a, it's a fun thing to, to go deep into. And I urge everyone too, if they.
[00:40:59] Speaker A: Have the time, kind of on that kind of trend of emerging sports and stuff. You work with investors and founders. Where do you see the most untapped opportunities in the sports industry right now? Those emerging sports.
[00:41:13] Speaker C: Emerging sports is a big one.
They're driven a lot by media rights which are changing drastically.
I'd say a lot of the biggest opportunities are things that people don't think of as sports directly. So it's some of these technologies that are dual functioning. So it's like, hey, maybe we'll go test it out with athletes or we'll test it out in sports teams. But they're really, you know, more consumer product or you know, there's something that can go to the military or there's something that, you know, can go to just broader fan bases that could be fans of, you know, entertainment or music or festivals or whatever. It's the things that, you know, they, they might look like a sports company or product but they're actually not. They're a fintech product or they're, you know, beverage, but they're, they're baked in sports to start. I think those are the biggest opportunities because there's nowhere else to get better advertisement eyeballs, fan engagement, consumer, you know, opinion than sports. And that's only going to continue to increase and it's only going to be better as you know, everything professionalizes as we're seeing with college and then eventually youth sports as well. And so that's going to create amazing opportunities. On the ancillary of sports.
[00:42:25] Speaker A: You mentioned women's sports a little bit ago with the gambling and they're finally, they're starting to see the more investment, more visibility. I mean it's on TV a lot more now in all the different leagues. You know, what role, you know, do you think those kind of play in shaping kind of the future of sports, kind of the economy of it, other than other than gambling?
[00:42:46] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean women's sports is definitely growing and the more visibility they have and again if there's betting attached to the more you're going to get involved. But we're also seeing generational talents and true characters and social media has done great with this of having a Caitlin Clark and then if you come into college now, they can get paid. So now Caitlin was on commercials in Iowa. And so they're actually giving women the chance as athletes individually and Then that's going to translate into the teams and then the. Obviously the leagues and then sports as a whole. The chance to be known earlier to create those narratives, to create those characters. Right. You have the battle of Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese. You need that to, to really drive eyeballs and therefore dollars.
But I don't know. I think there's only so much room from a broad scale of where they can go. And most of the leagues, the WNBA is still losing money and it's subsidized by the NBA. And so we'll see where it all goes. I'm. I'm bullish on it, at least from a valuation perspective.
I think there's some interesting investment strategies out there. You know, having. Having, you know, relationships with a lot of the, the mainly women building women's sports funds. But we'll see. There's. The beauty of sports is growing, but the hard part is there's only so many eyeballs to, To. To capture. And so we can only have so much truly succeed.
And, you know, women's sports are doing well in some areas, but in others, not. Not so well. So, yeah, it's fun to watch it play out.
[00:44:16] Speaker A: Well, I'm going to get you to get a bold prediction.
Look ahead 2035, what seems kind of unbelievable today, but might be a bold prediction for sports 10 years from now.
[00:44:32] Speaker C: I think a lot of the pro sports leagues are going to like the traditional ones, the ones that we all grew up watching that are fans of. And I'm just talking about America here, but the, the NFL, the NBA, the mlb, the NHL, I think they're going to flatline to some degree. I think they've tapped a lot of the existing media rights, the existing revenue, the global expansion, and they're going to have to be forced to go downstream. So I think they're still going to grow, but I think they're going to start to face a lot more competition even from things within like the NCAA is. College football becomes its own product, is going to be, you know, competing with the NFL and we're going to see a lot of unique things. And I just think those are.
They maybe hit a bubble a little bit. They grew a little too fast. I think they're going to flatten out. I think it's going to create some gaps and opportunities for a lot of the emerging things or new things. Right. Where I grew up, you know, my dad had the Steelers on every Sunday, so I was a Steelers fan. I like football, but nowadays I can go on my phone and maybe I'M not actually a Steelers fan. I'm you know, a fan of some handball player and now I watch handball leagues because it's all through my phone. Right. So I think, I think a lot of just even the consumption habits are changing and maybe not 2035 will feel it but definitely as you get to like 2045, 2055, it's yeah, things are going to look a lot different. You're not just going to be fans because it's the only thing on TV and your parents or fan, it's going to be what you customize and you know like through your phone.
[00:45:58] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean there's so much, there's so much to be able to consume now. I mean you're constantly getting the pings from everything and now with streaming, I mean you can watch, I mean I'm up early in the morning watching Premier League at 7:30 in the morning, you know, watching Liverpool or Burnley or somebody playing and it's, it's a lot different than what it used to be where that content wasn't around at all or wasn't, wasn't able. Readily accessible I should say.
[00:46:25] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:46:27] Speaker A: So somebody wants to connect you, connect with you and learn more about pro fluence, learn more about the association.
Where can they go to find out that information or get connected with you?
[00:46:39] Speaker C: Yeah, the best way is profluence.com has our story, has everything you need to know about membership and what we do and you know, ultimately I might have co founded it with Scott but we're member led, member built now. So everything new we add or build is you know, suggestions or feedback from members. So you know, profluences to become its own thing and you know, slowly remove me and Scott as like, oh, we founded this, now we're just a part of it like everyone else. And then you can check me out on LinkedIn or Twitter @ Andrew Petcash. There's links to all the profluence stuff but I'm posting basically almost five, six times a week daily and so a lot of people love that content as well. So that's another good spot.
[00:47:23] Speaker A: Andrew, thanks.
Thank you so much for joining us today. I know you're, you're a busy person and thanks for sharing your incredible journey and insights and thanks for building Profluent Sports into a kind of a global hub for, for sports business community. It's, it does so much and I don't think enough people know about it yet and I can see that growing really by the day and excited for that.
Thanks for that. That's our episode for today of the game changer unlocked. I'm Bryan Fetzer. Thank you for watching. And remember, true game changers aren't just players on the field. They're visionaries that transform us into the future. Have a great one. God bless.
